Cosmetic Surgery Chat - SurgeryChat.org

Toriumi will not do alar reduction. He told me "I don\'t put Caucasian noses on Asian faces." Very very emphatic about it. Don\'t waste your time with him -- seek another surgeon.

» » Hi I\'ve received your message, yes I am 21 and a guy too
»
» finally someone like me!
» same age, same gender, similar concerns, and seeking toriumi
» » wheere have u been? ive never seen u post on here before,
» » in any case i have a hard time believing toriumi would say something like
» that...» » however i also have an issue with you saying that the asian woman on T\'s » site has had westernization surgery, has society conditioned you so well » to believe that an attractive nose is a "Western" nose? . ive seen PLENTY » of asians in asia with that type of nose (namely from northern asia)
» » would you say that westerners who get canthoplexy and eye lifts/ brow» lifts to make their eyes look more slanted/asiatic, would u say these» people are getting "easternization" surgery? » » i doubt it..» » biased society» » im quite turned off toriumi said this...grrr.....

Hi. Yes it\'s my first time here since, I haven\'t been really insecure of my looks - UNTIL this year.
This is how I see it. There are certain features that are seemingly "aesthetically pleasing" by the general public.

1. Pale /Light-colored skin*
2. almond shaped eyes with double eyelids
3. Slim and lengthy nose bridge, non-flaring nostrils
4. strong/edgy/angular non-puffy facial shape
5. for lips, mostly thin for male, and pouty with enough thickness for women, but still VERY ARBITRARY (personal taste)

All the above are more generally described as "Western" features. *However, for any race, except for #1, based on my observations as how I "PERSONALLY" see how a person may look attractive, the above conditions are almost always met.

I have been asking people "why do you see this person attractive?" regardless of race. I have come to a conclusion that these features are what "most" people from all races generally aspire to have.

The same thing with color.
Universal idea : Dark / Neutral Colors are "generally" perceived as BORING. (colors white/black/gray)

I also find the black skin pigmentation as attractive, don\'t get me wrong. I am speaking of hair color and eye color. Dark colored irises are "BORING". Any one tone entity is generally boring. So for example, if you are Black (African), then it\'s probably more attractive if you have brown or light brown /hazel eyes, instead of black like your skin tone, so that it accentuates your black skin tone. You get the idea?


Anyway going back to rhino, if YOU want a slim lengthy nose bridge (or have it "Westernized" ), IT MIGHT SUIT YOUR FACE MORE IF YOU HAVE AN ANGULAR FACIAL CONTOURING WHICH IS NOT PUFFY.

I think that is what we see, that sometimes for example, you will think that a person\'s nose is fake because it "doesn\'t suit his or her face", regardless of race.

I can\'t speak for everyone but yeah, I cannot help what I am attracted to but you know, I can always compromise when it comes to attraction as a wholistic approach - physical and emotional.---
TORIUMI:
-COST
-ON NOSE LIFT & ALARPLASTY
-REVISION DOUBTS

on my consult with him last year that he might have to move my nostrils closer together. it sounded like he would see during the surgery if he would do it. but he said it would be slight.

i am not asian and i didn\'t go in looking for this to be done!

in my consult i felt that dr. t dictated his aesthetic taste and there would be no wiggle room beyond that

best to you

» JV said that toriumi WANTED to move in his nostrils closer together?
» why did u say that Dr.T doesnt have much confidence on alar procedure?
» alar procedure is one of the easiest things in rhino! lol it can be done
» in like 15 minutes

see... much of what i know about rhino (or few) need to do my homework and do some technical reading... but for now dr kim is looking pretty good in my book if only chicago were two steps away from my room that\'d be schweet.---
TORIUMI:
-COST
-ON NOSE LIFT & ALARPLASTY
-REVISION DOUBTS

» » All the above are more generally described as "Western" features.
» I don’t agree with this. AT ALL.

No, I was simply stating what you are pissed at - the "general" consensus, according to the media, white folks, and existing literature - that by "default" we have to base such physical attributes upon the whiteys. (For white folks, please don\'t get offended. Let me beach for a minute. peace out. we love you. ;-) ). I am in the same boat with you.

Take for example when you say "I want an all-American girl," more often than not this would imply to the blonde hair blue-eyed beauty. Even the term "American" is sometimes interpreted as being White.

I *don\'t REALLY* have much of a problem in such usage of terms, per se. I don\'t care at all, I mean, true, double standards. But history has a lot to do with it. I\'d have to dig down world civilization as how the Europeans pioneered in mainstream media, etc. F that, ok. I don\'t want to be a hero and fight against these formalities with euphemistic alternatives, wrong usage and misinterpretation of terms. I\'ll leave this be.

Bottomline, yes a slim nose bridge is not owned by and probably did not originate from White people. Call it Westernization, pretentious makeover, superficial desires, whatever. Just give me the reduced nostrils already. ---
TORIUMI:
-COST
-ON NOSE LIFT & ALARPLASTY
-REVISION DOUBTS

I am replying to you here because others may benefit from my take on the situation.

That Asian patient on Toriumi\'s website has raised more hopes (and dare I say it, fantasies) than any other rhino photo on the Internet. It has built the Cult of Toriumi. Asians think "ooh, he can make my nose more defined". Men think "ooh, he can make my profile nice and strong, without a slope". Everyone gushes over how natural it looks.

I don\'t deny Toriumi has done a fantastic job. It is natural-looking (though we have no way of knowing what it looks like now), but I don\'t think it was necessarily a "refinement" job. The girl had an under-projected profile. When her bridge was built up, it brought her nose into sharper relief. Therefore, this patient should not be construed as a willingness on Dr. Toriumi\'s part to refine ethnic noses. Nor is it logical to assume that just because he\'s Asian he is good at Asian noses. All we can say is that he is skilled at making noses more projected.

My nose looks nothing like this girl\'s nose. (Gosh, I\'d be happy with her pre-revision nose, dip and all.) Mine looks a lot like makemeheal05\'s nose, except the my tip and columella are retracted, so it has an upturned look. Dr. T. has agreed to make it longer, but adamantly refuses to do anything else. Now it may be he was grouchy that day or he just personally dislikes me, but it seemed to me he truly believes the "no Caucasian noses on Asian faces" thing. I don\'t disagree with that philosophy generally, but it sure is frustrating to wait months for an appointment and fly all the way to Chicago only to learn he will not even consider touching your ala or narrowing the bridge.

So I\'m not sure what you don\'t get. Please don\'t delude yourself about what Toriumi will or will not do.

» dare to be different and wear it well out into the world and hold your head up high!!!!!!! over the years, i\'ve learned to love my wide face, my weird-shaped assymetrical eyes, and the bump on my nose. i don\'t care that my chest isn\'t huge and i could use about 6 months in the gym. maybe 35 is a nice age to settle into our natural looks. i want to grow old gracefully and earn every wrinkle that i have coming. however, i also appreciate what anyone needs to do to feel better about themselves. i say do what you need to do, but really think about this: are you doing it for yourself or society?? and, if you do it, will it matter to you if anyone notices or will only "you" smile when you look in the mirror. if you\'re not doing it for yourself, it\'s not worth doing. don\'t live for other people.
» helen

Thank you, Helen, it was such an empathic reflection. I will, however, say this.  Double that social anxiety and you will feel how to live as a person of colour. Not only does it encompass the feeling of self-consciousness for being "physically inferior" than "most" Caucasians, but it also involves the social stigma that we still have to live by. Thanks to narrow-minded racists.

In my opinion, people are doing physical modification for *themselves*, but essentially, it is actually due to what the society that we live by has been dictating and imbibing into our minds. We do it for ourselves because society has virtually come up with a set of standards that will qualify us as attractive to most people. It\'s human nature that we always want to or have to please everybody, if not almost, in every life aspect, be it a shallow physical attribute that is a nose, or an always approachable, polite, PC, friendly, customer-is-always-right work ethic. We adhere to what the general public calls for.

Our idea of beauty has to come from somewhere. Like for instance, by stereotype, a wide flat nose is usually attributed to early forms of apes, and a beak-shaped nose to a witch\'s. I know my idea of beauty has evolved through time. As I\'ve said I wasn\'t initially aware that my nostrils flare up whenever I laugh, or that I would think that flaring nostrils look aethically displeasing to me, until I compare it to what I see in media and in the people I live with.

I mean, you know, I have yet to hear somebody wish, "I want to have dark black eyes, soo pretty and mesmerizing."

Yet again, thank you. It certainly does put things into perspective.
I wish you all the best, Helen <3